Elle 0:00
Maggie Sims began her love affair with romance before her teen years, drawn to the Regency by her mum's British influence in her 20s. She did her best to live the Carrie Bradshaw life in New York City, albeit with less expensive shoes and more books. Despite reading hundreds of romance novels in her life, she was still blown away when she met the love of her life and ex marine son mineral with creative woodworking and culinary schools, Booth skills, not schools skills, both of which are very important, I might add. Having retired from corporate life, they live in Central Texas and our parents to a varying number of dogs and cats. When not writing Maggie is a wine enthusiast, a travel junkie and a romance reading fiend. She also sporadically crochets for knots of love.org and does just enough exercise for that second glass of wine at night. Welcome, Maggie to steam scenes. Thank you so much for being here.

Maggie 0:55
Thank you for having me. Oh, this is really exciting.

Elle 0:57
So Okay, question. How long were you? Were you in New York for

Maggie 1:02
about seven years, seven years through my 20s They were really kind of some of my best stories. You know,

Elle 1:11
I know your 20s in New York are the best that was. I was in the New York area for 20 years. So I my 20s were absolutely firmly planted in the city. And it was super fun when I was there, because it was still kind of gritty. You know, it was always expensive, but it was definitely more affordable than it is now as well. Oh, yes.

Maggie 1:33
It wasn't everything.

Elle 1:37
I know but New York is just like prohibitively expensive now like just so unbelievably expensive. It's it's kind of like eye popping. So what were you doing there?

Maggie 1:48
I had graduated college and I grew up in Connecticut, and I went to school undergrad up in Massachusetts. So where all my like a lot of my college, graduate, you know, friends went to Boston from college, I went back to Down toward New York, but I wanted to be the small fish and the really big big pond, right and see what I could do there. And I was I was actually in accounting public accounting for a while and then I went over into finance. And then I went into technology and now retired and writing roadmaps.

Elle 2:25
Whoa, okay, that is completely different from, like, you know, from what you're doing now. So when When did you Okay, when did you start writing? Like, even like, if it was like, I was three.

Maggie 2:39
I mean, I tried my hand. I dabbled in high school for their for our high schools literary magazine, but didn't get very far. And then it wasn't really until I want to say right around 30 When I was laid off from because I was out in San Francisco by the end of the Bay Area. And it was, you know, the tech companies are always having layoffs. And so I had a couple months there and I was like, Alright, I'm going to job search, but you can't do that for eight hours a day. So let me actually try this and and it was you know, I had a great time. But my jobs were demanding enough I was making a career right, not just writing at a job and they were demanding enough and had long enough hours that I didn't pursue it when I was working. So the next time I attempted to actually sit down and write I realized that that book had payphones in it and probably will never ever see the light of day. Oh, no historical, right. It was supposed to be for like, Harlequin.

Elle 3:50
Like it had payphones now it's a historical. Oh my god, I'm so old.

Maggie 4:00
I'm older than years ago, I guess. But yeah, so I started over. And what I started was Sofia's book, because I had had the realization of, you know, it was it was 2015 So I'd been reading historical romances since I was, you know, 11 or something crazy. And, and then I and then I read like the 50 shades and the early Maya banks that that were better books than her later ones in my personal opinion and, and a few others. And I was like, Well, what about combining those What about a historical erotic like, they didn't have the dungeons in the St. Andrew's crosses and the whatever, you know, at least as far as we can tell, like I haven't been able to find any documentation of that. And and so I'm like, you know, what would they have done and who's written about it, and there were only a handful. Annabelle Joseph who was My inspiration and mentor and she gave me my first cover review quote, was one of them. And, and a couple others. And I was like, there's like my, my finance and you know, business school brain went, there's a niche market that I can fill right now. But it took me like five years, six years to write it and get it accepted by a publisher. And so by then there's there's definitely more people in the space. Golden angel is just starting out, you know, there were there were a number of other who were fabulous historical kinky authors. And so I guess I should say, authors of historical kink, I don't know that they're kinky. So

Elle 5:47
we're making a lot of assumptions here, right?

Maggie 5:49
Yeah. It's definitely possibly in the wrong place. But

Elle 5:54
I want to back up for a second. Second, so when you're, you're laid off, you're, you're in this sort of tech finance, you know, new biz, biz development, whatever job and you're laid off and you're like, I'm going to try, I'm going to try it. But we're like, I'm kind of curious where we go from, I tried writing for the literary mag literary magazine in high school, to being 30 and laid off and being like, might as well try that book idea. I've had like, we're like, there's been a book simmering in you for like, you know, 15 years here. Let's, let's talk about that.

Maggie 6:30
Um, I so I had read, like, since the early days of Harlequin, right, like the violet Winspear and and Mathur days of, of Harlequin, and the purple covers of silhouette, you know, the early they like, you know, all the same authors that, you know, many people my age will quote, The Kathleen wood, it was the, you know, Judith McNaught, you know, all of those, right, and so, I've been like, avidly like I would go to the library on a Saturday morning and get through three of the harlequin by the time that I, you know, had the right home for lunch. So I've always been a romance addict. That's, that's always been my go to genre of choice. And I don't know, you can only read so much to write. And when you're when you've got an open day, every day, and I was living in a very small apartment, there wasn't like I had to clean a lot or anything. No, I didn't pass that I did not have a husband to care, take care of or, or be or entertain or whatever you want.

Elle 7:41
Because we should add like San Francisco prices are more expensive than New York prices like that.

Maggie 7:48
Yeah, well, because you have to have a car too. So yes. But yeah, so I just was like, Well, let me do something with you know, and I don't know, I've always like I was never good at art, but I could do calligraphy. So I'm always gone to something around words.

Elle 8:09
Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. So okay, well, so you should then that book that you wrote when you were laid off? That was that was a contemporary.

Maggie 8:21
It was at the time. Yeah. Get all the way through.

Elle 8:25
I'm still dying about the payphone. Well, you know, oh, gosh, I just I just spaced her name the Anita Blake series. Why can't I think of her name?

Maggie 8:37
Hamilton?

Elle 8:38
Yeah. So. Yeah, um,

Maggie 8:42
yes. Laurel.

Elle 8:44
Laurel. Laurel. Oh my god. Yeah, we're Laurel. Laurel. LAUREL K. Hamilton. Yes. I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm having a hard time with that. Um, she her very first book, the very first Anita Blake book or the the first few I need is like running around with a beeper. Ah, and it's so funny to read. Like, I got, I got I need to find a payphone I go to. And every time I read that, it just makes me giggle.

Maggie 9:14
I read those a lot closer to the beeper days. Yeah. You know, it didn't occur to me and God, you have great memory for that stuff. Geez. But I think

Elle 9:22
the first the first first book, it was like, they went to see like, Les Mis or Phantom of the Opera. And it was like a really big musical that they went to go that and I was like, Oh my God, that's like Broadway's longest running musical. It is just closing. You know, it's sort of like this kind of like novel, you know, novel musical. So it's so funny how stuff like that gets dated and so quickly. I think in our the past 20 years, like, I feel like things get dated faster than they did 30 years. Yes. Yeah. You know, so I think that's really funny.

Maggie 9:57
It's a good reason to write historical Yeah. is a good reason to write historical

Elle 10:01
because then you're actually you're not accidentally doing it. So I know that you, you were a big historical reader. And so and I love that you it, like your business brain sort of triggered and said, Hey, I think I found a niche for this.

Maggie 10:17
I mean, I'm a big I'm a pan romance reader other than what they like to call sweet and I don't like that phrase, but I like clean even less. Because I mean, anything between two people who care about each other is clean as far as I'm concerned, and can be sweet, but or however many people but I, I pan read, I read paranormal I read I read a ton of contemporary, strangely enough, I read any period historical set, maybe like 1950s and forward. So you know, I It wasn't so much. Ah, it for contemporary, by the time I actually settled down to write, you know, I am will say over 40, just plus a lot, but

Elle 11:07
say,

Maggie 11:08
right, and so it's like, I don't know if I can get the lingo down. And I don't know, I don't know if I can get the vibe down your writing. You know, like, as soon as I write, swipe right, there'll be something else, you know, that kind of stuff. And so, but I was cemented in the Regency, not just because of having grown up reading it, but also because of my mom's roots. And in my mom's whole family is still over there. And then it was like, there was just enough world building and a lot of historical readers minds that I didn't have to start from scratch. And that was attractive as well.

Elle 11:47
Interesting. Yeah. Because contemporary we don't have to build. I mean, I argue this all the time. Because I do think that we we have to build, there is a lot of world building. Because you're building, you're building the world that the characters inhabit, even if it is contemporary, but there's certainly some shortcuts that we have, right? Because you don't have to explain so much,

Maggie 12:08
right? Like you can say stays, you can say the fall of his breeches, you can say whatever. And readers know what that is, like, I can't imagine the early writers having to, you know, put that on the page and still keep us moving. Right.

Elle 12:22
Right. Right, without having to kind of explain, I think that's a really interesting point. Because, you know, language does do a lot of work for us. Yes, you are certain language does a lot of work for us. There take and takes a lot of shortcuts and who is doing who is doing the work before we had the short. But I think with Regency in particular, there's also it almost feels like because I don't write it and I don't read it as much as I should. It almost feels like another language a little bit. Yeah. Right. Because because there is a different there are different expressions for things that that I think are sort of super interesting. And I was kind of curious when I was reading your Absa excerpt, I was actually thinking about this, like, where do you where do you learn that? Right? Like how do you know that? Is it because you read so much that you understand the the language and the patterns? And, and this is a word for this? And this is the word for that? Or is there a thesaurus? Like, I don't know the how do you know this stuff? Well,

Maggie 13:29
okay, so combination of things. Number one, I don't necessarily do the best job at keeping the phrasing and the terms authentic. I've been called out and reviews for missing things like I think in I think it's Sofia's book, I use the word pants one time and even today, Brits don't call trousers pants. Right, right call underwear pants. And so you know that that was a mess. And I I took that and I was like, Thank you and I corrected it by booktuber you know, so. So but there's from reading a lot of Regency, especially the earlier ones, I have it a little bit and then having British family is so key. Right? I still say sometimes like I beg your pardon versus sorry. And things like that. And so and oh my gosh, if you saw my whatsapp with one of my cousins, who doesn't even read romance, like appalled that I'm writing romance and so I'm like, hey, what do you say for if you weren't saying the been? Would you say the rubbish you know, like, what, what word would you use, like wood that's more formal. So I've like always what's up in her and then there's also an etymology. I think it's like at a my online or something like that. A website. That is fantastic. It's a free resource, and so you can see the history so either in something like belt buckle or I'm coming up with something on the fly but belt buckle or something, you notice how all of mine are around, like ankles, undergarments, undressing? Sorry,

Elle 15:14
it's fine there's a trend there's a trend here

Maggie 15:21
so but belt buckle like you can see well When did belts you know you can go to Wikipedia and see when were belts actually really first started used as a fashion accessory and were they were they buckled? Did they have the the metalworking skills to like create these nice buckles and stuff like that? And they did. I mean, they had buckles on shoes, right, but right, you know, you can check anything like that. But MPD anatomy and the Moto G site.

Elle 15:46
I think what's astounding to me though, is you're even sort of drilling down enough to ask these questions. Like, I feel like I would just take it for granted that like there's a there's a belt and a buckle, you know, and so it's kind of fascinating to me that you are, your process is, is so thoughtful, that you're able to stop and say, Wait, did they have that? Let me go back and research because to me, I don't know, I'm like, I'm exhausted. That's a lot of work.

Maggie 16:14
Well, okay, but here's the thing, like my first draft of Sofia had something like, she had to get, you know, back in the game, or something like that. And it had like, a bunch of modern phrases. And thank God, I caught them my critique partners caught some, and then my editor caught the rest, right. And so it's, it's definitely an evolution, you know, of being aware in the back of your mind as you write something and you're like, that's, that's not a time appropriate phrase, and you just change it, and I just love it, it

Elle 16:46
catch us, you know, I don't know. Yeah, but

Maggie 16:48
it took me like, you know, five years of, you know, drafts and learning and, you know, to become that aware. Right,

Elle 16:57
well, okay, so you have Okay, so we've got one book one Sofia schooling, and then you have the second book coming out, which is Rosland rebellion. Nope, actually, sorry. That's the that's the that's the Oh, sorry. That's a free that's a free

Maggie 17:15
just to newsletter signups. But it's a novella. It's 23,000 words, which was supposed to be 15,000.

Elle 17:23
I don't write funny how that happens.

Maggie 17:26
They get a nice little novella, when they sign up for my newsletter, but that's and that's a prequel. Great. So the cousin who takes Sophia in when she becomes an orphan, she's a teen, but you know, girls have to be under the care of somebody until they're married, and particularly until they're 21. And so the cousin takes her in he and that's his meet, meet cute with his wife, who both appear quite a bit, especially in the beginning of Sofia's book. So it's an it's a nice little e way to ease in like, do I really want to read Regency erotic, you know, and does this author do it the way I like it, you know, so and then Penelope is passion is book to grass about a working class girl who wants to start a bakery and decides to auction herself off at a virgin auction to for one year contract as a cortisone. Okay. And that's out in October of 2022.

Elle 18:26
God, that sounds so good. Yeah, like just a couple that we're a couple of days away from releases. We're recording this and y'all know I record far in advance. So this is ready for your Kindles or your e readers like right now because I'm intrigued by Penelope is passion here. Okay, we've got a couple of things going on in this but I totally wasn't ready for it, but we're just gonna go for it. It was like I was saving this till later, but let's just do it. Okay, the series is called School of enlightenment. So there is a place called School of enlightenment, where women go for what to know.

Maggie 19:06
So it's a secret school that teaches young women to take their future and their pleasure into their own hands. And so there's three different at the time of Sofia's book, there's three different paths. There's, you know, aristocrats who are destined for marriage or are already married there are there's the Corizon path, the demi monde and then there's servants. And so think of it as a secret alternative a more subtle version of the Blue Stockings society plus empowering them in their in their

Elle 19:53
sexuality. Okay, so,

Maggie 19:57
but this the books don't actually happen at the school. It's It's what happens after it's it's how the school plays in to create these perfect unions right? To help these couples find happiness.

Elle 20:10
Gotcha. Is this a real thing? Or is this sort of is this is this you're sort of playing around here with this is kind of like the fantasy element, the world building element that you're bringing into this, the School

Maggie 20:22
of enlightenment is entirely my imagination. Women have the Regency, that they had more education of financial management, and, you know, everything husband management and political. And I bring all of that.

Elle 20:38
And management. Okay, this is fascinating. Because I know that you're, because I feel like this kind of straddles you know, historical, but now you're moving into Into a Fantasy area, which I think works really well when you're writing erotic Regency. But I know the region, like historical readers are so are nitpicking. And I'm wondering how you kind of fantasies to me.

Maggie 21:05
Fantasy to me is like, something like beyond the earthly realm, that couldn't happen in the earth as we know it. This could have happened. So to me, this is simply historical fiction. It's just sad that it didn't. Gotcha. Okay. I don't know. That's, that's my personal take on it.

Elle 21:26
And so I'm just kind of curious where you were, was there a question while you were doing this, like, oh, how are the readers going to respond? Are they going to be okay, because I don't like, are they more concerned about like, they should have been called trousers, not pants? Yeah. I mean, like, we're Yeah, I guess, where's that line drawn for them, where they're, they're okay. reading something that didn't actually was Lastly, thing, I can only tell

Maggie 21:50
you from feedback that I've gotten both positive and negative. They're some of the historical readers were like, Okay, this is a little light on the historical and the love story and the romance, and a little heavy on the sex. Right. But that kind of defines erotic romance, whereas sex is very much intertwined in their path to love and happiness. And so the the, the only thing that was a recurring theme. I hate to tell people like the criticism of the book, but he's, he's more dominant, obviously. They're not overtly, you know, in a DS relationship or anything, but like, you know, nor was that defined at the time, right? So he's more dominant. And he was designed as a grumpy sunshine. Okay. It feels to some, like, I missed the mark, and he's more on the Alpha hole kind of edge. And so and they and various people were fine with that. They expect that a little bit more from a dominant. Yeah, but some people were like, well, that was fine. But he needed to do more to redeem himself at the end. So that was, that was the feedback I got that I'm very open to and I love and I want so that I can make the next books better, you know, so.

Elle 23:21
Yeah, I think it's hard. Like there's a balance, right? Like, I think it's like for me, like I try to write the alcohol because honestly, I know that readers really like reading the alcohol, right? Yeah. And I ended up writing this cinnamon roll. You know, when I started, like, he's gonna be the biggest alcohol. And it turns out, he's kind of grumpy. But he's mostly a great guy. Right? Like, I cannot get that right. So I kind of love that you wrote the Alpha Hall.

Maggie 23:55
Okay, well, good. Well, then he's he's the only one until a later book. So there's certainly Dom You know, the, the first three books are gonna be more dominant male, but and then I'm trying to write a book for as he kind of straddles between a beta hero I don't know that I call Miss enrolled, but a beta hero Anna, but he's dominant into the bedroom kind of thing, right? I do have a spin off. That was a nano project. It's I call it a 55,000 word outline, basically. That is truly a cinnamon roll with an older woman, younger man OOMing going on, and she's the more dominant one, she's the more dominant one and so that'll happen further down the road. You gotta get through another few books.

Elle 24:51
Well, I mean, I do I do think that this is fascinating because you are playing with a lot of tropes that we really don't normally think or we normally find or we don't normally find in Regency and so like when I was sort of, you know, reading about you and reading the scene and also, you know, we're gonna talk about spanking because the spanking in the book like I don't think that I ever kind of like was like Regency romance and then Bloop, bloop spanking and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what? I was like, Wait, where did this come from? And I was I was fascinated. So I'm kind of weird to you. So you put yourself in erotic Regency right? Is that kind of how you would categorize I hate categories but this is what we do

Maggie 25:38
right? So I consider to Regency erotic romance or Regency erotic probably the however many sex scenes might be on the page. They they're designed, at least in my mind, in my editor's mind, like to drive the romance forward, and two, to move the characters through their emotional arc, right? And so and there's very much emotion in them. In the beginning, there's curiosity and then there's like, you know, interest in the person and then there's love right? And so the if it was straight up erotica, it would just be sex for the interest of sex it was it would be for titillation. Right. And that's what the reader expects, when they pick up something from an erotica book, a cat, a book categorized by erotica, erotic romance, there should be a romantic arc that should be the focus the relationship between the characters and the sex is a manifestation of that. It's an integral manifestation of that but it's it's really a reflection of the emotions and there should be an IGA and that's the difference there. It's a nuanced a lot of people and I get that but like, that's why a lot of erode erotic romance authors, myself included, are furious because Amazon has put erotic romance over from the romance category, overarching category into erotic and then erotic romance. So it's under I think, erotic fiction, and then it's erotic romance. So it's very annoying, because, you know, it doesn't show up in searches. And it's, you know, and it's and it's not even in the romance, overarching categories from them.

Elle 27:26
Right. I mean, I know when I was reading one erotic erotica writer, and I actually felt like some of her books did fall into like, could really straddled because I think a lot of times you I mean, you can write erotica, like anonymous sex, like you're just like, you know, back alley set, like, whatever, you know, you turn me on, I'm having sex. And that's and that's it. But I know she was categorized as erotica. She categorized herself as erotica. But her books were actually very romantic. And they really were about kind of falling in love, but she was going after Super taboo subjects. And this was like, years ago, you know, people were like, I don't even know what to do with you. Yeah, and, and she just took all of her books off of Amazon, and she just sells them, you know, but she's built enough of a following where she's able to kind of do that, right. Like she's kind of, but I do think it's kind of really interesting, because I'm wondering, did you when you're reading the Regency romance do you find Did you find writers that were kind of dipping a toe in a little bit but then pulling back

Maggie 28:38
Yeah, so I, so everybody's line between steamy and erotic romance is different. Right. Right. And some people like some, you know, there's enough out there that are especially in the contemporary space of erotic romance, that if you haven't filled at least eight holes by the end of the book, it's not you know, and you know, just you have to get unendingly creative right. So but so I would say the ones that straddle are like maybe a scarlet Scott she she gets into a more I guess I would say dominant or even maybe domineering hero but but doesn't cross the line into like, kink per se. Right. And then there's the Emmanuel de Maupassant, the golden angel, the animal Joseph that kind of thing where they're firmly into different variations of kink there's M Brown, there's a few others. I'm sorry if I'm missing some but those are those are firmly into erotic, probably probably more sex and more craziness, Kate cares that are on the page than my books. I wanted to go traditionally published and so I kind of kept it with like, you know, the two people, the male, female for the for the moment right before branching out. And then the, in terms of spanking even, like you mentioned, you asked me about spanking and I went off on a

Elle 30:19
totally fine. This is what we do.

Maggie 30:23
Even within spanking as a kink, golden Angel talks more about domestic discipline, which is more like a punishment. Whereas my characters, it's, it's generally seen more as, you know, a punishment. As they say, Well, it's a thing in contemporary BDSM romance, but anyways, sorry. It's mostly considered as a punishment, or there's like different levels, right? If if it's a fun spanking versus a, you're in trouble kind of spanking, which I do get into ones later in the book, and it ends up being fun for both of them anyways. And so people who bought mine that were expecting domestic discipline actually had an issue. It wasn't the same as you know, some of the others. So it's, there's so many levels, there's so many.

Elle 31:13
This is absolutely wild, and it's making me not want to write Regency because

Maggie 31:20
right King?

Elle 31:23
No, because I because this is fun, right? Like, you know, I guess I'm sort of I'm so intrigued by, like, the fact that you've created this goal where they go, and, you know, and I'm just like, this is this is really fascinating. And then sort of like and then adding the kink elements into it, which like I said, I'm not I actually was not expecting, you know, coming from either Regency and I was like, This is phenomenal looks. Thank you, because you are straddling you are really struggling, and it sort of does become its own genre.

Maggie 32:02
Yeah, it makes it a little hard to market frankly. Yeah, I imagine that historical tend towards sweeter right and right, some of the erotic or like, you know, the I'm totally into the BDSM world, I'm not into the, you know, spanking first of all, or second of all historical. So, yeah, yeah, it's

Elle 32:21
kind of it's kind of crazy that you've sort of like, woven in kinks and BDSM into these Regency books. And I'm just like, this is absolutely fascinating. And yeah, and make it very hard to market. And Dave Yeah. I mean, were you ever like, have you? Have you been tempted to kind of pull back? You know, and maybe not go that far? Or are you just like, This is what I want to write, and this is what I'm writing, um,

Maggie 32:52
for this series, and the spin off books that I'm contemplating, I will stick with this, or I'll go deeper into it, like, oh, like Book Three is a different kink. It's not spanking, it's voyeurism. And that of all things came from one big Facebook group does a lot of polls. And one of the very big authors in this space asked the readers, you know, it's like, 4000 members or something that she asked for their favorite kink in historical romance. And they're in like, the answer came back for Arizona, like, I can make that happen. All right, I'm all about writing the bargain. sub niche.

Elle 33:35
Oh, my gosh, that's so awesome.

Maggie 33:38
But I could see doing completely different things to down the road, like I could see contemporary with some cake and without, and, you know, like, I don't know what all right, I don't, you know, I gotta get through this one first, I guess, right? Of course, of course.

Elle 33:54
Well, I want to sort of jump to Penelope, and Penelope of passion and the idea of origin auction, and these sort of routes to you know, Corizon servant or aristocracy, like, this is super fascinating to me. So, the virgin auction that actually sounds like that could be a thing.

Maggie 34:13
It was but it was a very ugly thing. And in fact, I have have had, you know, feedback from a different editor that was like, you really should not do this and put this out there and encourage people to view it as okay. So I will own that. I will put that on record here. It was it was it was we'll just leave it as it was a very ugly pastime. But the reason I had it even in the first place was because it was truly her choice after graduating two levels of the school, and it was to empower her she gets a ton of money from it. It's a one year contract, they do follow up visits, and then at the end of the year, ideally she's Got the start of a nest egg? Probably not enough, but the start of a nest egg to pursue her dream of a bakery. Right. So I tried to make it empowering even though, you know, it wasn't,

Elle 35:16
it was the true virgin virgin auction was not? Well, you know, I think I think what's sort of fascinating and what I'm kind of thinking about is the idea of there was this terrible thing. And it was an absolutely terrible thing. And how do you take that you're kind of reappropriating something right? Like, how do you take that and turn that so maybe it does become something that is a net positive. And so I think that you could look at it as a form of reappropriation and saying, like, I'm taking this thing that it was truly, truly ugly. But what if, because that's what we do as writers, right, everything is whatever. Um, you know, I don't know, I, you know, I mean, I don't know, I think that, like, the things that you're doing as a writer, I think are really, very courageous. Thank you.

Maggie 35:59
Thank you. That's very nice.

Elle 36:01
Yeah, yeah, that's sort of like is what's striking me most is like, I'm just like, I would be petrified, you know? Oh, my gosh, you know, I just got called out on Amazon for like, a major fuckup in one of my books that like, you know, the 16,000 editors that looked at it, and the, you know, all of the years worth of review, like people reading it, an arc team and all of that it was just a stupid, stupid error. And it was a mistake. And I just, and I got like this scathing review, and I'm just like, oh, you know, ready to, like, go in a corner and die. Because like I Oh, John, mass mistake, but he got up. No,

Maggie 36:41
I, you know, I've seen something on I think Twitter and Instagram about this at different times. To me, you have to look at that and say, You, you error, you made it through, you know, my three self reviews, you know, two different editors, an arc reader team, and my proof of the galley and you are still there, go you persevered, and you just walk away. You know, like, I love what I do.

Elle 37:20
Oh, my God, that is excellent. That is so excellent. But it was just like I so I mean, just to, and that was just like a dumb mistake and late. And so I just think that you're just sort of saying, you know, what, I'm doing this thing and I and recognizing that you're gonna, you could get like, serious blowback for some of the stuff and are all

Maggie 37:38
gonna get blowback for something, right. So yeah, like what you like and go with it. I mean, you know, frankly, you know, you you're writing that is this fantastic romance, but with, you know, less than eight sex scenes and most, you know, that terrifies me, well, what am I going to do? Because honestly, when I get stuck on what the characters are going to do, I have them have sex, and then and then I have to edit some out. That's go to so you know, everything, you know, everybody has a different thing. That is their challenge. I have a friend of mine, who when she used to write a sexy, and she's like, insert sexy in here. And those are the last things she write because she hates them,

Elle 38:24
really, but she writes that everyone hates them, but she writes them. I, I have a hard time. I mean, clearly you don't struggle writing them. I mean, if you're just like, I don't know what else to write, so let's just have sex. Like if you're, you must really enjoy writing them then.

Maggie 38:39
I do actually. Yeah. Different from the other ones in the book, you know, and different from the last book. And so they're different from other books that people have read, right? That's the other thing too is right, trying to make it feel fresh and unique. And specific to these two characters. Right. Right. But to do that, it's not just about like, so. You know, I know, You've asked other authors in the past, like, Well, how do you go about writing these, right? So for me, I go about writing the physical first, like all like because I need to get the movements down so that there's not some random arm somewhere like that comes from his two arms are over there, you know. So I get all the physical down on the page, all the mechanics, the movements. And I use, you know, some of the right words and some of the just like, you know, push, you know, like, you're not supposed to use push, like, you know, when you can avoid it, so, but I'll get it all down. And then I go back and I layer in the mental, write their thoughts, whoever's POV I'm in. And then I go back and layer in the emotions right and for both of them, like the emotions can be manifested in the way he touches her or the way she touches him, right or, you know, the fact that she doesn't touch him because she's nervous or whatever, like, so even if I'm in the other person's POV, like I can layer in some of the emotions of both of them. And so then that's a complete sex scene, right. But it does take me a couple of passes, and usually a little bit of editor help, like, a little more hair place.

Elle 40:18
All right. Oh, wow, that's really interesting. Yeah, we actually write them very similarly. But I just get, I just find that I get, it slows me down. And I think that's why I get frustrated with them. Because I just want to like, write the story. Like, I just want to go go go. And, and because I find that, like, when I get to that scene, I really, uh, you know, it's like, it's like putting the brakes on for my writing. And it's like, you know, what would normally be 1000, word day becomes a 400. Word day.

Maggie 40:50
I guess I don't always do the layering at the same point, because I'm like, well, they're having sex for a reason, right? Because it better be because it's supposed to move the story forward. So then, like, I have the sex scene. And sometimes like, halfway through, I'm like, Oh, this, the rest of this needs to be from the other POV. And I flip it. And then I like, and then it's the next morning or the, the that afternoon or wherever, whatever time of day, and I move on, and then I come back to it. And so that's often in my first round of edits.

Elle 41:18
Right now, I'm pretty linear, and I probably do something I shouldn't do, which is I will go back and edit as I'm writing. And I know that's not the best thing to do.

Maggie 41:27
No, there's no should stop it.

Elle 41:30
I know, there's no should but like, you know, no editing brain and writing brain two totally different things. You know, so it's sometimes it's just best to charge for that word, but I always feel like I can't move on if I don't know where I've come from. And sometimes, especially with those scenes, because you are layering so much into it. I feel like I need to get done or else it's like hard for me to move on. Right?

Maggie 41:53
Okay. Well, sometimes, like, when I really stop and think about the emotions, I ended up having to change something in the next scene if I'm coming back to it, right. So in some ways, yours could be more efficient, right? By doing making sure it's all there, write them. In motion here, they can't just flip a bit and be super happy in the next scene. Like I gotta go back and, you know, write, show that transition on the page or whatever.

Elle 42:21
So was it always this sort of like, for like the first book that you wrote, while you were laid off in your 30s? Yeah, it was we were you always like door wide open. There's a sex on the page, totally comfortable with it. And nothing like weird or unusual, like freaking out. You're just like, I'm just reading the scene.

Maggie 42:41
I was 30 a long time ago. So now they're I hadn't found erotic romance. And I hadn't found erotica I had. And, and frankly, I was just like, I only knew like, the big publishers and I thought the way to wait in was a shorter book a harlequin like series romance. Right. And so I was tailoring it to that. And so there couldn't be too much sex on the page.

Elle 43:11
Right? Because this was a this was before publishers were putting were comfortable, right?

Maggie 43:16
There was no Harlequin Blaze or anything else about them. Right. So yeah,

Elle 43:21
yeah, there was it was it was all very Wink, wink. So did that frustrate you as somebody who clearly enjoys writing these scenes, was that frustrating as a writer?

Maggie 43:34
Um, no, not for that. Well, so it to me. I enjoy writing these scenes, partly because I saw a niche market and I started thinking about it right of how How did kink work in the Regency period before they had all the toys. But like, also, you know, I have an outlet very rough outline of what do they call it a seasoned romance or late in life romance kind of thing that isn't kinky at all because that story didn't feel like kink belonged in it. Because of the characteristics I was thinking and their love arc, and so it's not something that I will always include necessarily, whether historical and the late in life I refer to is, I hate that term season's romance.

Elle 44:33
It makes it sound like we're well salted.

Maggie 44:35
Exactly. And especially when they started at like 35 or 40. I

Elle 44:42
remember first hearing season romance and romance book. I pick it up. She's 35 I'm like, oh, go fuck you're

Maggie 44:50
exactly. I was Yeah. In fact, I had heard 40 And then I heard your interview with was it Joe? Oh, Joe, Joe wild. Sorry. And, and and you said 35. And I was like, really? How did it get younger damage? But I sorry, we did. But that's a contemporary. Right. And I still don't, you know, no, I, I, I want to try all the things and but to me, I'm not going to search to try something for the sake of for trying it. I'm going to try because the characters come to me that way.

Elle 45:32
Right. Right. Because you have a story to tell, right? Like, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just think it's really interesting, because you seem to have found this sort of like, like the thing that you want to write about, but it also falls into like this really kind of cool niche that you're kind of stepping into, although you're essentially creating the niche as you go along, it feels like or I should say, niche, I would say niche, its niche, not

Maggie 45:55
both, but I don't think I would not say I created it, I mean, I created the school, but honestly, like these other, there are other writers out there the way. And I thought me, you know, in some ways, I really did think I thought, oh, my gosh, niche market, that's gonna be great, because I'm gonna be one of a lot fewer authors. And so people will buy, you know me more easily as a new author than they might otherwise when if I'm like a contemporary billionaire, you know, like, then that's harder. It's a much more competitive market. And so. So I thought, great, but it's also a, like I said, a harder market a harder niche to market. And I do think it's a smaller subset of readers. And so there's, there's that to contend with. Right. So,

Elle 46:50
but I would imagine, it's gotta be growing, because I think, you know, steamy peep readers, like steamy books, you know, obviously, you know, look at the success of 50 shades, you know, that it can be it can, that can be in whatever time period, you're setting your books. Really, I mean, I don't think that kink didn't exist in the Regency period. Right. You know, we just maybe don't really know what it looks like, because a lot of the stuff is like, was it documented? I don't know that it was.

Maggie 47:22
Right. And if it was, it's in archives that I could not get to during COVID when I was finishing writing.

Elle 47:28
And if you're, I mean, if you look at like, Victorian, the Victorians were very into pornography. And if you look at sort of, like, you know, Victorian porn writing from the day, it was, it was it was shocking. And so I would imagine that there was some sort of, you know, kink going on. I mean, it was it was really, I mean, to the point of like, sometimes it's like, a little troubling, shocking. But there was there, there was there had to have been kink. There had to have been, there's no way there. There's no way it wasn't.

Maggie 48:00
Well, and I know, you know, the Regency, by definition was when the prince region was acting on his father's behalf because his father was, had dementia. And so and he was just, he was a partier. Let's just put it that way. Right. He was all about having a good time. With everybody on everything. And so he I feel like there was a lot more promiscuity and an open sexual liaisons that during that time, and then Victorian, the Victorian era was a little bit reaction to that where it was very repressed on the surface. And underneath there was still this underlying, but like, there was, I think the Duke of Devon Shire was or Devon, sure. Whatever. You heard me say it. I think he was in a marriage where her best friend lived with them because she though two women were in a relationship as well. Oh, wow. And so it was a three way relationship that's documented, right. And so. So there was there's like, little hints of it.

Elle 49:17
I think yeah, I think I think it's just, you know, I love that you can sort of find those nuggets, right, like, find the hints and then kind of follow that trail, you know, which I think is really kind of cool. I mean, I definitely love history, but I don't know if I can do the research y'all do. All right. I want to get into your steamy scene. Yeah. Alright, so we've got Sofia schooling, School of enlightenment, enlightenment book, one. Can you set the scene up for

Maggie 49:46
us? Yes. So they have the modern term is fooled around a couple of times. Okay. I was wondering what were the Yes. Okay. And at Then they were discovered by his best friend, her cousin. And he was like, Dude, you know, you have to marry her. And so, you know, of course in regencies terms, not dude. And then and then they got married, and I didn't want to include their wedding night. Because that's like, to me premium content, you have to read that. Okay, fair enough, right. But then and then he sent her to the school for training because he, he trains horses before he was the Earl and still wants to continue to try to train horses as well as balanced the earldom and, and he likes to bring his crop to the bedroom. So he wanted her trained for that once he discovered the school from his best friend, her cousin. And so she goes off to school for two weeks. And then this is him, he picked her up at the school and they're on her on their way to his estate, where they're going to kind of start their marriage and get to know each other more. And I liked this scene, because it she's got this weird mix of innocence, but knowledge from the school but not practical, like she hasn't, you know, put it to use kind of thing. So she's still in learning mode. And so there's more a little bit more dialogue, you get to know the characters a little bit. And it's a little bit less you know, over the top than some of the later scenes and I feel like without having established why the listeners do it with your podcasts just like my readers like should care about you know what they're doing in the bedroom. I would be just throwing them in right and so this kind of helps them get to know the characters a little bit more.

Elle 51:55
Okay, cool. So

Maggie 51:56
this is this is essentially this is essentially a second time having their second

Elle 52:01
time okay, because I kind of wasn't you know, not obviously not having read the earliest because I kind of wasn't sure if there was if but this is their first time since she's been quote unquote crooned since she's gone to the school, so I kind of understand this trepidation. Now. That's kind of happening with her like a little bit like it seems a little like, Am I doing this right? I'm not sure. Right. Let's go a little bit of that going on, which I thought was really neat. Okay, I'm gonna start reading. Sofia put a knee on the bed, but Edward stopped her. Ah, you're not allowed to wear any clothes for this exploration. Benefits. Oh, by the way, we should say we're in Edwards point of view for this scene by the way. Oh, she scrambled back and shed her underground garments, throwing them on the pile of his clothing. Climbing back on the bed. She knelt next to him hesitating, as if unsure where to begin. Edward raised his hand to cut the breast that seemed to spur her into action. Oh, atmospherically. Okay. She just wanted to stand away saying No, my turn before gasping and looking at him with a hint of nerves. Right? Right. Then I was merely trying to provide inspiration. He placed his hands behind his head, his arm muscles bulging, unintentionally, unintentionally drawing her gaze. She's smooth fingertip she smooth fingertips from his elbow toward his chest. He twitched may have a firmer touch. If you please Sofia, I admit to being ticklish. After that. She looked intrigued but did as he asked her hand then following the plans of his chest and stomach to his hip. She leaned over him to try and reach his other side. Edward touched her closest leg. May I tilting her head she nodded. he hauled it over him. So she was astride his thighs. She leaned in running both hands over him. He breathed in citrus and flowers mixing with her arousal, his eyes nearly rolled back in his head under under his head, his least fingers tightened in an effort not to grab her hips and thrust up into her. So I Okay, so I loved this, this moment, I'm interrupting myself. Because there was there was a lot going on in these lines with trepidation, desire consent. And I thought there was this ease into things between them that I thought was like really cool, that sort of was also easing the reader into it as well. In a scene that could have been more frenetic, right, if that makes sense. And so I thought that this was kind of like, like I said, there was an ease to this that between the characters and then also for the readers where we were just kind of like, you know, sliding along into it with them, which I thought was really, really cool.

Maggie 54:47
Yeah, I mean, for someone who didn't want to be married necessarily, you know, he's, he's being very patient with her and trying to kind of do See what, again benefits he can get out of this marriage so long as he had to marry but, but also allowing her to learn.

Elle 55:09
Right, right. Yeah, I think there's a patient's here too with him, which I thought was really, you know, I mean, he was being patient to like, not touch her and you know, but I also sort of like was into her curiosity about the whole thing because she was like, apparently I'm gathering from this scene. He was probably doing all the touching and the you know, the idea that she didn't get her opportunity, and now she wants to take it. Which was pretty cool. You know? And I was like, You go, girl, you take your opportunity. I'm gonna keep reading. She grazed his nipples, pinching them as he had hers, her fingernails adding an exquisite point of pain. His hips shoved upward an inch and he grunted every month muscle temps to refrain from flipping them and driving into her over and over until they both exploded. My Lord, I beg your pardon. Did I hurt you? She had drawn her hands back sitting up on his legs. He felt her wet heat against him and wanted to write he grit it out. No, Sofia, I liked it. As you do. He has his cock added its thoughts pulsing up. She looked down shocked. It does that when I feel a speck of pleasure. Would you like to touch it? Touch it. crimini he was begging again. At least it was silent so she couldn't hear his vulnerability. Would you like to touch it? Okay. Okay, so when I first read that, I kind of burst out laughing because Yeah. Please, you touch it. Touch it, touch it. And I was and I made a note was this their first time which it obviously wasn't? Um, but it was the first time

Maggie 56:46
she got to explore right the first time was she was a virgin. Right? And so they surely had fooled around and whatever. But like there had been little spanking or whatever. But like, you know, her first time was her first time and she hadn't been to the school yet. So now she has been in school. She knows a little bit more what to expect from both the wedding night and the school and so he's like, Hey,

Elle 57:10
come on. So I just like I really like I was reading through and I was like, Would you like to touch on that so great. Okay, before his thoughts derailed him. Sofia's fingers curled tentatively around his shaft bringing his pleasure back into sharp focus. she grasped the base of his cock pulling it up away from his body, her expression wrapped. Her tongue came out to lick her lips and he polston her hand again making her jump, then grin with pride. Now slide your hand up until your thumb goes over the ridge and is at the tip then slide it back down. Like what I did at your school. His grin slid away as she followed his instructions and his neck arched back as as lightning shot up his spine from her stroke. She repeated the movement. The moisture leaking from the slit allowed her hand to glide easily up and down. Exploring she lingered at at the round, helmeted head, circling it then squeezed the base where her hand met his groin. She had glanced up to watch his expressions as she changed her caress What else should I do? Give me your other hand, he guided her to his sack, curling her fingers around it, she weighed it in her palm watching as it shifted her hand on his cock slowed, he tapped one wrist, gentle here, the other on his shaft firm here. And you went faster, she sped up her pull and push. Yes, that perfect little one. He gasped out throwing his head back. I thought this was great. First of all, I don't think we've ever had. What is essentially, it's such a delicate term, I'm going to use handjob. I don't think I've ever read a handjob on this show, which is really love, which I was like, Oh, wow. And I thought that that was kind of interesting how the lesson he's got because he's kind of guide. He's given her a little bit of a lesson, but becomes the foreplay between them. And I was just sort of thinking about this as I was reading through the scene, and I was like, you know, what? Women write for play really well. Right? You know, shouldn't it always

Maggie 59:28
be a little bit like that between new lovers? Even when it's not urgent, like you should teach each other what you like?

Elle 59:37
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that that's, and I think that there is this sort of, and I'm guilty of this, like, I'm sort of right, like there's an innate knowledge of my characters. They know what the other person wants. But in reality, no, we don't know what the other person likes or what they don't like, or sometimes it changes from day to day, like one day something could feel really great. And the next day, it's like, no, no, no, I'm really ticklish there. I don't have because it can sort of change day to day. And so I kind of really loved that this was a lesson and I think that it's a lesson to me that it should always kind of be a lesson.

Maggie 1:00:10
Yeah, or a checking in it later on in the relationship. Right. And that's one thing that kink reading and writing has has reinforced with me as like, you know, just to check in with your, with the partner, you know, and put it on the page, put the consent on the page and put put them put the chickens on the page, right? At least

Elle 1:00:34
I know that there was this sort of thing going on, I don't think it's a thing anymore. But for a while it was about like, putting consumers on the page pulls you out of the store, like or whatever. But no, like consent isn't like, Wait, stop, we must talk about this. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there are very essential ways to build consent into the story as you're writing it into the scene as you're writing it. So it's not like, wait a minute, we must sit down and work out oh,

Maggie 1:01:00
well, it can be seamless, right. But even like, you know, there's some of that. Well, you know, can't condom use be like, just, you know, the suspension of disbelief and whatever. And it's like, no, there's probably, you know, there's enough. You know, you're talking about readers 18 and up, right, there's enough young people reading this, that you may want to reinforce condom use, you know, and having safe sex and having that conversation and what's wrong with having the why is that not sexy to be smart about sex, and safe sex? And so, you know, I, I tend to, to write it the way I think it should be rather than worry about some of the naysayers.

Elle 1:01:50
Right? Right. Well, um, you know, speaking of that, like, at the end of this scene, you know, they finally do a couple, they have the sacks and at the end of the scene, he pulls out and finishes outside of her. And was that a form of bread? Was that this sort of like a form of birth control for the day? Was that kind of what they were practicing.

Maggie 1:02:10
Yes. So okay, Edward has dyslexia and he didn't want to be married and he's worried about like, whether this marriage will work and what if she finds out about the dyslexia and leaves him or then he suddenly says, you know, what, if my child can't read and so then he was like, I'm not ready to think about that yet. And he just yeah decides to have his own form of birth control. Wow,

Elle 1:02:39
that's really fascinating. All right,

Maggie 1:02:41
so his fears like come in right in the middle Yeah,

Elle 1:02:44
yeah, cuz he was like, oh shit, like I'm pulling like pulling it Yeah, cuz it's a fear top of mine. Edward scrambled backward onto his knees, yanking himself out of her infesting his caucus and pumped only twice for a seed spurted onto her belly, for legs, and his hand and thighs and Sophia Leigh, and an ignorant bliss with his turmoil, staring up at him with a hazy smile. Looking down she said his messier than when your pleasure meet with you. She sent him an arch look. I was like, Yes, that'd be a good point. I really, I really liked the dynamic between these two. And it's sort of like super interesting that they were almost forced, you know, it forced it was kind of a forced marriage, right? Like it was, you know, because they got busted fooling around, you know, and it was like, well, now you're gonna marry her and and it's but it clearly as they get their happily ever after it was it was clearly like, meant to be right. Like they were. They were meant to be together, which is why we love romance.

Maggie 1:03:48
Yep. That is that's husband handling. Right south and I'm a little bit

Elle 1:03:58
of Absolutely. Okay, so we've got, um, we so you've got pelvis, passion. By the time this comes out, we'll be out in stores, a Rosland rebellion is available as a free download to sign up to your newsletter. And then hopefully, when this airs we might have you might have a third book out.

Maggie 1:04:18
I might have that voyeurism book out that's a widow and a basically a regency era billionaire kind of guy. Oh, nice. Just all about having fun and totally laid back and she's very uptight. And so that's, um, that hopefully will be out in April or May. It's called elfis Awakening.

Elle 1:04:42
Excellent, excellent. So in the meantime, where can people find you? What's the best place to find you on the internet?

Maggie 1:04:50
So, my I have a website, it's Maggie sims.com. And you can sign up for my newsletter there. I'm most My biggest social media presence is Instagram and I'm Maggie sim, the author on there, and I'm on BookBub as Maggie sims with a hyphen. I'm on Tik Tok as Maggie Sims dot author and I'm on Twitter as Maggie Simms author but without the O because I ran out of characters to avoid Twitter and I suck at tick tock so yeah, Instagram BookBub and my end my newsletter are my go twos.

Elle 1:05:32
Same same. I suck at tick tock and I hate Twitter. So yeah, well, and I will have all of the links in the show notes. So people can just click on over on they don't have to scramble to write shit down. Right and thank you so much for being here. It was super fun to talk to you.

Maggie 1:05:50
Oh else I had so much fun. Thank you so much. This was this was really a joy to to do. And I do have to thank Sandra young for pointing me in your direction. So she She's the author of divine vintage and I think she's been on your show. And so she found you for me. So

Elle 1:06:10
thanks, Sandra. Thank you. All right.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai